The Coin Doc's Answers

The Spanish 8 reales was the world money standard from the time the Mexico Mint started striking coins in the late 1530's to the 1850's. The New World 8 reales and the subsidiary 4 reales, 2 reales, 1 reales and 1/2 real started out as crude "cob" coins with irregular shapes, often with parts of the design missing.

Starting in 1732 the Mexico Mint began minting coins with the flans held by a collar that impressed a security device on the edge. These coins are round and feature the Pillars of Hercules surrounding crowned, conjoined globes and ocean waves below. To the left of the date is the mint mark. The reverse shows a crowned shield with the assayers initials to the left and the denomination in reales to the right.

Your coin was minted at the Mexico City Mint and the assayer, that is the person in charge of minting coins at that time, was M.M. Since your coin was minted under the reign of Ferdinand VI (The legend says Ferinand VI By The Grace of G-d King of Spain and the Indies), and 1759 was the end of his reign, your coin must be dated 1756. (There is a 1860 Ferdinand Pillar. News traveled slowly in those days).

Spanish 8 reales was the model for the U.S. dollar and in fact, 8 Reales were legal tender in the U.S. until 1858. The equivalency was:

• 8 Reales=$1
• 4 Reales=50 cents
• 2 Reales=25 cents
• 1 Reales=12 1/2 cents (later downgraded to 10c because of wear)
• 1/2 real= 6.25 cents (later downgraded to 5 cents because of wear.)

Pillar dollars are readily available today in the coin market. Grade, of course, plays a strong role in value. For example an 1756 Pillar Dollar in EF grade would bring between $110-$150 today.

You have a bronze 1949 Republic of China 10 cents. the Portrait is of Sun Yat-Sen, the reverse shows the island of Taiwan. value: nominal

You have an 1812 Austria One Kreutzer (Mint Mark? There are seven for this date). Note that Rulers of the time had very long titles that listed all their ceremonial names. Also, coins of almost all European countries constructed coin legends in Latin, the international language of the time. To make them all fit, the titles are abbreviated, in Latin, no less.

Your coin shows a bust of Franz I, Austrian Emperor, 1806-1835. The legend roughly says:
Franz Emperor (KAISV) of Hungary, Bohemia, Lohra ...etc and the reverse:
SCHEIDMUNZE DER WIEINER WAEHRUNG - Fractional money of Vienna Currency.

The monetary relationship was:
8 Heller=4 Pfennig=1 Kreuzer
60 Kreuzer= 1 Florin or Gulden
2 Florin or Gulden= Thaler (Species)

The value ranges from about $1 to $60 depending on the grade and mint mark.

Use a magnifier to look at the surface of the coin. The zinc cents will have numerous bubbles on the surface. It was difficult to get the copper plating to bond with the zinc correctly.

There are no 1935 series $1 silver certificates with the motto: In God We Trust. The motto was not placed on currency until the 1935G Series. This transitional series comes with and without the motto. The "with motto" type is worth a bit more if uncirculated ($11 Vs. $15).

The West Point Mint has been aiding the Philadelphia Mint in producing coins for a good number of years. There is no way to tell which Mint produced the coins since the dies are identical, they are all made at the Philadelphia Mint, and the cents and pre-1980 quarters have no mint mark. You can tell how many coins were produced in each Mint as these numbers are listed in the public records.

Africa is well know for its use of primitive money. West Africa is a large piece of Real Estate and includes Sierra Leone, Gold Coast, Nigeria and Gambia. I haven't heard of a "Gizzie Penny" but from as early as the 15th century there were numerous types of metal bars used as money in this area.

For example the Portuguese introduced Manilla, a copper horse-shoe shaped bracelet, about 3 oz in weight, about the time that Columbus was exploring the New World. They became a medium of exchange for all kinds of local products such as pepper, ivory tusks, palm oil and cotton cloth.

There is a broad collector market for "Odd and Curious" money so your item would find a fairly ready market. You need to identify the item as to date, specific origin, and state of preservation in order to be able to sell it.

One good reference is "Confederate States Paper Money by Arlie R. Slabaugh" Krause Publications 700 E. State Street, Iola Wisconsin 54990-0001 Tel: 715-445-2214. You can find the book at book sellers or directly from the publisher cost: about $20.

Tokens like the one described above are emergency money used in the North during the U.S. Civil War. They were privately minted in an effort by merchants to alleviate the chronic shortage of small change. They quickly became vehicles for political messages as well. There are other Coin Doc answers regarding Civil War tokens. See the Coin Doc's Answers and the Archives. Use the Search Tool to find the pages with the reference you are seeking. There are also Civil War tokens for sale on Collectors' Showcase Collectors' Showcase (www.sellcoins.com) 

There is a bit of apples and oranges in your request but you can easily compare gold values from the 1580's and translate it into current gold bullion values. The problem lies in that the 16th century economic system can hardly be translated into modern terms. There was still a strong barter economy partly due to the fact that coins were difficult to make in quantity for commerce.

Hammered coinage was unreliable since the irregular nature of the flans made the coins an easy subject for clipping. Having a clipped coin in ones possession could bring severe judicial punishment even if you innocently, albeit naively, accepted the flawed piece.

The era of Elizabeth I, brought a technological breakthrough in the guise of the Screw Press. The coins of this era are of remarkable quality and are a credit to the round milled coinage that was introduced during this era.

In addition, to make a comparison between 16th century goods and modern goods you have to find items and services that would have been available in both eras. An example might be bread, wine, bricks, horses, doctor services, clothing such as shirts, pants, blouses and dresses, shoes etc.

Let see how some of the gold coins of this era translate strictly by bullion weight.

• Sovereign (pound) of 1551-1625, weight 12 grams of .9948 fine gold. Actual gold content = .3838 troy ounces. Equivalent to 20 shillings or briefly 22s 6 p
• "Fine" Sovereign or Rose Ryal (1485-1625), weight 13 grams of .9948 fine gold. Actual gold content=.4158 troy ounces.
• Angel (approximately 1/2 pound or less depending on date), weight 5 grams of .9948 fine gold. Actual gold content = .1599 troy ounces

Based on just the just the gold content, a shilling at 20s=pound, would be worth about $5 in gold bullion in current U.S. currency. Of course, this is skewed. It is possible that in terms of goods, the shilling might have bought the equivalent of $20 of modern goods. This requires further research.

There are several design differences between the 1916 quarter and later years. Here is a few characteristics that should help. Get a 10x glass to see the details easily:

-The gown folds on Miss Liberty's leg doesn't touch her leg.
-The Reed above Miss Liberty's head is cut in half to make room for her head.
-Miss Liberty's fingers have no separation on the 1916. They look like a blob. Miss Liberty's fingers are seperated on the later dates.

You have "Japanese Invasion" money that was distributed on the Philippine Islands during the Japanese occupation in WW II. Most are common as they were made in large numbers and were found warehoused. After the war, a great many people turned them and received a receipt. They hoped that the money would be redeemed for U.S. dollars. Though not valuable, they are interesting and historic. Many Far East collectors collect them by series number.

This is a gold plated nickel and not a $5 dollar gold coin. There is a famous landmark legal case to determine whether it was criminal to gold plate nickels and cut reeds in the edge to make it look like a Classic Head $5 gold piece.

The date 1883 was the first year of the Liberty nickel and since the population was new to this coin, it was easy to get a way with the scam. Suprisingly, the perpetrators were found innocent since they used a deaf mute who would buy a 5 cent cigar, put the gold plated nickel on the counter and walk a way with $4.95 change. Since the perpetrator couldn't speak he never said it was a $5 gold piece and therefore was innocent of fraud. (19th century logic). Later that year the word "Cents" was added under the"V"

 These nickels are affectionately called "Racketeer Nickels". To be a "genuine" RN, the nickel must have reeding on the edge as well as the gold plating. Worth about $50 or so if one of the "originals".

The reported mintage projections shows a mintage of about 500 million coins for each of the quarter designs. That means that the Mint intends to make 2.5 billion quarter each year in the program, about enough for more than half the population of the planet. I think that collecting these great coins should not be looked at as a financial investment but something interesting and fun to collect. What other series that will contain fifty coins can be gotten for $12.50. or collect both mints for 25 bucks.

Contact the American Numismatic Association (see the Links page) and join. They have many educational programs including books about coins, grading and other related subjects. They also have a fine library from which members can borrow books through the mail. You can also get prices from sources such as Coin World, Numismatic News, The "Red Book", and The Coin Dealer News Letter. See the links page for more.

Privately made "cents" were manufactured by various groups as emergency money during the Civil War. Many of these tokens had advertising or political messages as their main device. "Civil War tokens" have a strong following and collectors try to find as many different pieces as they can.

I'm not sure you could make it stick with an already confused public. There is no tradition or even the necessity to grade coins on such a fine scale. Broader terms make more sense. The difference between an VF and EF coin is measurable. You can teach someone the difference.

The problem has always been with evaluating uncirculated coins. It has become extremely subjective. This is easy to prove. Just send a nice mint state coin into any grading service over and over again. You may be surprised at what grades are assigned each time. Part of the problem is that there are now eleven mint state grades and the grading isn't evenly divided by quality. There are smaller subjective differences between MS60, MS61, and MS62 than between MS63, MS64 and MS65. What happens when there are 20 or even 30 mint state grades. I don't think you could show someone the difference. Also, over time, the grading seems to float and evaluations become tighter or looser. Essentially encapsulated grading has become a marketing tool and pricing is by nuance.

Though I don't see any value in a 100 point scale, there is a positive side to encapsulated grading. The graders are skilled at counterfeit detection and the grading services guarantee that their opinion is correct. Encapsulating the coins is also a fairly good storage method though the containers are not air tight.

If grading is vital to the value of a costly encapsulated collection than you need to have the coins evaluated at least yearly. It is the only way to determine what the market value of your coins has become. Since encapsulated grading is market driven, your coins will often grade higher in an active market and lower in a stagnant market.....or maybe not.

For example, recent radio commercials cite the "fact" that Beethoven was paid only twenty dollars for one of his symphonies. This is based probably on the fact that he had been comissioned to write one for 500 florins, and the usual dictionary definiton reflects a "current" exchange rate of about forty cents per florin.

Since Beethoven was the first musician to really make a living as a freelance artist not dependant on working as someone's in-house composer or music-maker - it follows that he was a pretty sharp business man in his Vienna, Austria market.

Two years work for twenty dollars is not good business sense.

So what was the actual value of his commission compared to modern times?

The $20 fee in the radio commercial is probably incorrect. It would translate into approximately 1 ounce of gold. Though this was a good deal of money in the early 19th century your idea that the fee was 500 florins may be closer to the truth.

A way to figure this is to translate the gold value which tends to stay constant over time to the current gold value in 1999 dollars. A 4 Florin-10 Franc trade coin from 1870, though after Beethoven's time (1770-1827), contained 3.2258 grams of .900 gold or a pure gold content of .0933 troy oz. pure. 500 florins divided by 4 gives us 125 gold 4 florins. If we multiply 125 against the gold content of .0933 troy ounces per coin we get 11.6625 ounces of pure gold. Based on the current price of gold of $256/oz, a low point in the gold cycle, Beethoven's 500 florins translates into $2,985.60. Still not a great price for such great music but Beethoven worked on more than one piece at a time.

There are other factors to consider. Money went much farther than it does today. Food stuffs, such as bread, were often made at the same place as where they were sold; there was no means of long term storage. Though craft products such as Beethoven's Piano must have cost a bundle, good composers and musicians were in demand. Imagine a life without lighting, electricity, air conditioning, radio, television, movies etc. Live music must have been a delight in deed.

Paranoia by the treasury. The government wrongly blamed coin collectors for the severe coin shortage of 1960-64 and banned mint marks from 1965 to 1967. The mint grudgingly resumed placing mint marks on coins in 1968. The Philadelphia Mint specialized in minting large numbers of copper-nickel dimes and quarters to replace the silver coins that were pulled out of circulation by the public. The branch mints worked the most on cents and nickels which had no precious metal content. No nickels were made in Philadelphia during this period to allow more time for the coins needed the most.

The 1970-S nickel was minted both as a business strike and as a "S" mint proof.

There are many working dies that are made for each year's coinage. Each die has a life of about 100,000 coins and there are many coin presses working at once. About one billion quarters or more are minted each year requiring quite a few working dies.

Doubled dies are created when in the process of manufacture, the potential working die rotates during one or more blows from the master hub. In reality, tiny but detectable amounts of doubling are common. Collectors are looking for obvious doubling where a good deal of rotation occured in the manufacture of that specific die. Usually, gross errors are caught by the Mint workmen but not always. Look at the severe die error in the 1955 doubled die cent. These even escaped detection after they were struck and many of these spectacular errors ended up in circulation before anyone at the Mint detected the error.

Note that every coin stuck with the defective die exhibits the exact same error. Don't confuse double die errors with mechanical errors such as "shelf" doubling caused by a loose collar that hold a coin blank in place as it is struck. Each of these is unique and though doubling is present, has a different "look" than those from a doubled die.

Comments: This is a wonderful site. I especially liked reading about the 'unusual' dollars, such as the yellow and Hawaiian issues. It's quite piqued my interest in collecting! The link between history is made tangible through this hobby. Kepp up the good work on getting the info out!
Name: C. A. Finney
Email Address: sloth03@mindspring.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Question: Several years ago, my grandfather-in-law dug up a coin in his yard in St. Augustine, Florida, site of the Castillo de San Marcos of colonial times. It appears that he has unearthed some sort of Spanish colonial coin, but I haven't been able to find anyone who can tell me if it's authentic, much less of its value. It is silver, and has a much earlier date (1722) than most of the currency I have seen indexes carry. Furthermore, it has fairly good detail (despite some areas where the coin has been rubbed smooth)much unlike the cobs I've been seeing online which date from later periods. This detail makes me think it must have either been minted in Spain or is some sort of fake.

Features of the coin include:
The name Philippius * V * D * G *, around the perimiter with each element separated by a small floret (indicated here by asterisks).
On the same side is a shield surmounted by a crown. Though the crown looks much like those on other Spanish coins, the shield has a different design than I've seen on other period coins. There are three trefoils in a miniature shield separating four fields. The upper right field has a number of vertical and diagonal lines. The upper left is divided into three, smaller fields with two lions and a castle turret. The lower left has a striped, pie-shaped wedge and some unidentifiable form, and the lower right has some dots and similarly unrecognizable features. To the left of the shield appear the letters (vertically oriented) of R and what looks like two Ms right on top of one another. The space between the right of the shield and the edge of the coin is rubbed smooth.
On the reverse of the coin, there is significant rubbing, though you can still read around the perimeter Hispaniarum * Rex * 1722, again with the asterisks serving to indicate the position of small florets. The center of the coin is dominated by a much blurred insignia, which appears to have been the castle turret and rearing lion design from the Spanish flag. All the center design is surrounded by a double meandering line, much like a floral outline.
I have been VERY curious about this coin and have dragged it around trying to get it appraised in Tampa, with no luck. Similar efforts on the Internet have similarly proved fruitless.
I sincerely would appreciate any information you could share.

The "two "M's" on top of each other gave it away. What you are looking at on the obverse of the coin is a small castle monogram with three arches. This represents the Segovia Mint in Spain. You didn't mention the coin's size but it is most likely a 1722 silver 2 Reales (about 2.6 cm in diameter or about 1 inch).

The coin was struck under Philip V of Spain and is not a cob, but a struck coin made on a "roller press" that gives the coin a slightly bent look. The assayer is "F". The letter "R" above the mint mark means Reales and if you could see to the right of the shield you would see the denomination "2".

The Shield is a study in heraldry and reflects the Hapsburg line of European rulers, and in the case of Philip V, the French Bourbons as well. The three fleur-de-lis in the center of the shield reflect the Bourbon lineage. Note the castles and lions (Castile and Leon), the rampant lion to the right, Brabant (Belgium), the diagonal lines to the lower left, Old Burgundy, the parallel lines at top right, Aragon. To the right of that, parallel lines are intersected by diagonals that within are two figures representing Naples and Sicily.

The reverse shows a cross and in each quadrant either a castle or Lion (Castile and Leon in Spain). A tressure or quatrefoil surrounds the cross. The date is at top.

These coins circulated widely in North America and were the models for U.S. coinage in the following century (Two reales=25 cents) and were legal tender in the United States until 1858. This series of coins are readily found in the numismatic market and come with mint marks from all over the New World as well as Spain. Value depends on grade. Low grade pieces as you described bring $10 or less.

Name: Rosie Walker
Email Address: walkerbr@home.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Question: I have an 1838 Liberty Head half dollar that doesn't look like the ones I've seen pictured in books. The front looks pretty much the way it should but the back and edge are another story completely. On the back there is the eagle one expects but there is also a ribbon with the words E pluribus unum (I think there are several other samll differences in the face & back of the coin but the ribbon is the most exceptional difference) along the edge are the words FIFTY CENTS OR HALF A DOLLAR are stamped over the reeding of the edge. The coin has a gold silver tone to both faces and unfortunately is rather worn. Was there a second design that year or is this a counterfeit coin (if so the counterfeiter didn't do a very good job) or could this coin have been struck as a demonstration piece to show what could be done to make the coin harder to counterfeit?
Thank you in advance for helping me with this matter< BR> Rosie Walker

You most likely have an 1833 half dollar with the last digit "chased" into an "8". There are significant differences between the lettered edge coins and the 1838-39 reeded edge variety. The 1838 does not have a ribbon with "e pluribus unum", the legend below the eagle says "HALF DOL.", the plain edge says 50 C. The reeding was probably cut by hand into edge of the coin and you can still see the lettering underneath.

This is not a counterfeit but an altered common date 1/2 dollar made to look like the more expensive 1838.

Comments: Wonderful source of information
Name: Gordon Pepper
Email Address: smcclure@nanetworks.net
-------------------------------------------------------
Question: Knowing absolutely nothing about coins ... I've come across a miniature size buffalo head nickel (about the size of a watch battery) dated 1938. On the front appears the word "Liberty" and on the back "United States of America" and "Five cents". It has the appearance of being real, but I've never heard or seen a nickel in miniature form. If it's authentic, could you give me an idea of its value. Thank you for your assistance.

These were originally made by a private company as play money and then retooled as a novelty item during the high inflation period in the late 1970's and early 80's. I guess it was suppose to show the shrinking value of money.

Comments: Nice site.
Name: Paul Martinez
Email Address: prmart@hotmail.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Question: Can you tell me history of the 1837 half cent token. Was it used as legal tender? Was it commision by private businesses? I have one that looks to good to be true are forgeries common?

I imagine that you have the 1/2 cent token that says Standard Weight and Half Cent Worth of Pure Copper. These tokens are part of the series of tokens that were created by private sources to supply small change during the severe coin shortages between 1833-42. These "Hard Times" tokens were a fond memory twenty years later and many restrikes, usually as proofs, were made during this period to satisfy the collector demand for examples of these historic pieces.

Most of the tokens were 1 cent size and the 1/2 cent pieces are relatively rare. Values from $25 to $1,000.

Name: Brian Leonard
Email Address: Brilnard @us.ibm.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Question: I have another question for you to answer....I have a coin dated 1833 with REPUBLICA MEXICANA on the back and 8R.Z.1833.O.M.10D.20G. on the bottom front and LIBERTAD in the middle. Can you give me any information about this coin and its value......Thanks

You have a Republic of Mexico 1833 8 Reales, Zacatecas Mint, OM is the assayer. The design shows a Liberty cap at the center, the word LIBERTAD across the band./Eagle with out stretched wings, wreath and REPUBLICA MEXICANA above: Value between $10 -$125. depending on grade.

Name: chris bandley
Email Address: datinc@sginet.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Question: I have found a coin that I cannot find in my foreign coin book. I hope you can help me. It is copper color and about the size of an American Quarter. On one side it reads "scheide munze" under that is a "3" and under that is the word "PFENNINGE" and the date "1872" below that. on the back is a crest with what looks to be a phoenix with "120 EINEN THALER" in an arch that si near the edge of the coin. The coin is in very good condition with no wear marks at all. I hope you can help me thank you.

You have a 1872 Prussia 3 Pfenninge. The Legend 120 EINEN THALER tells you that 120 3P (360 Pfenninge) was equal to one Thaler,(pronounced Tollar, like "dollar" with a "T"). The term SCHEIDE MUNZE refers to the fact that the 3 pfennige was "fractional money", that is less value than a Thaler.

There is a "A" "B" or "C" under the date separator that represents the Mint that struck the coin:

-A = Berlin
-B = Bayreuth
-C = Cleve
Values from: 25 cents - $15+

Name: keith majka
Email Address: kmajka@hotmail.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Question: i have a 1969 D silver penny, how much is it worth?

There are no U.S. cents that were ever struck on silver flans. 1969-D cents are 95% copper 5% tin and zinc. It is possible for a cent to have accidentally been struck on a dime flan, but dimes in 1969 weren't silver either but a mixture of copper and nickel.

Wrong metal strikes exist and a cent struck on a dime flan would have part of the cent design missing. This type of mint error is scarce and a genuine cent on a copper-nickel dime bring about $200 or so.

Occasionally, one sees plated U.S. coins that were altered for some commercial purpose. These are not Mint products and are essentially mutilated coins.

Comments: Neat, I bookmarked it.
Name: Jim Michael
Email Address: jmikol@aol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Question: Help: I need the help of someone who is knowledgeable about broken bank notes. I just bought what was purported to be a broken bank note. I don't think it is but I'm not sure what it is. It's printed on one side, on thin paper and with engraving sort of similar to Confederate money. It says:
Elyria, Ohio
I promise to pay ____________ or bearer on demand FIVE DOLLARS in current
bank notes at ______________________
___________________clerk


S. Styles Sherman & Smith. N.Y.
I bought it because I live in Elyria but this has me baffled. Do you have any idea what this might be and if could have any value? Thanks in advance,
Jim Michael
What you have is a I.O.U. or promissory note, not a bank note. The only bank in Elyria, Ohio wasn't a "broken" bank, that is, it was organized after the depression period of the 1830's and wasn't "broke".

It was called the Elyria Exchange Bank or the Lorain Bank. It was organized in 1847 and became a National Bank in 1864. It was also known as the State Bank of Ohio, Lorain Branch.

The pre-National Bank issue is an obsolete one dollar note that was issued May 26, 1855. It shows a plow and steamboat, a sailor, anchor, bale and ship on right, mechanic seated, farmer, wheel, grain and trees on left. The reverse shows Pandora, ONE above. To the left is a portrait of a man "1" above, ONE below.

Name: joe yakubik
Email Address: joyak@aol.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Question: What is the price for a 1983 silver panda 1 ounce coin with this being the first year of issue.

The 1983 Panda or 10 Yuan was minted in limited amounts and contains .7813 troy ounces of silver. Only 10,000 coins were struck. They come in two ways, either as a proof or a frosted proof. You must have the original packaging and certificate in order to sell the coins in the market. Values with packaging about: $150-$175. Without original box and cert: about $10-$20.

Name: young seale
Email Address: eysiii@mindspring.com
-------------------------------------------------------
Question: What is the origin of the $5 Silver Ethiopian Haile Selassie? How was it commissioned and by who? Is 1972 the only year? Mintage? Are the mintage figures published believable? Thanking you in advance...

The one year issue, 1972 Halle Selassie $5 (5 Birr) coin is a good example of a non-circulating legal tender issue (mintage 100,000). NCLT coins are made only to raise money for the issuing body and not intended for use as money. The issue price is usually far more than the face value. The collector markets are filled with NCLT produced by virtually every country with a mint.

The United States' NCLT issues have really gotten out of control over the last few years. It could cost thousands of dollars to buy all the issues from just one year from the U.S. Mint. One wonders if there is a point of diminishing returns where people just throw in the towel. Until then the world's mints will continue flooding the market with these issues.

The "Man-Headed" bull is a common theme on many of the states of Greek Italy (400-350 BC). It is often shows Nike (Goddess of victory) with wings flying over or behind the bull. You don't really haven't given enough information but the size indicates that of a silver didrachm or tetradrachm.

I think that the Man-headed bull is representative of Sarapis, a derivative Egyptian god (Hesar-Hapi). Sarapis was a healer, a good source of miracles, ruler of the visible world and on the side, ruler of the underworld and, oh yes, god of the sun. You would think that with his schedule he wouldn't have time for too many extracurricular miracles.

Gold coins of this period would be from dime size and smaller (Stater, obol). Of course your coins aren't real ancient Greek coins that's why they are marked "Copy" and as such, are most likely made of some kind of base metal with a brass plating. As copies they may not even be historically accurate.